The forums here are even more dead than on MX for TM2. ^_^

On to the topic at hand....

One of Nadeo's videos a month or so ago said 20,000 maps had been made for ShootMania. Every time I check here, there's not much more over 1,000 maps uploaded.

I realize that people never upload all the maps they create, and I realize that not everyone who owns the game has an account here... but I'm a little surprised that more maps haven't been uploaded.

I've been going through the TrackMania 2 Canyon maps from the start of that game, and there was around 2400 maps uploaded just in the first couple weeks alone.

Perhaps that was due to the TrackMania community's awareness of TMX/MX already.

ShootMania has a lot of new members to this community who may not have discovered MX yet, or who are still playing with the editor and may not be ready to release their maps to the public yet.

There's also the distinct possibility that some authors also host their own servers and want their maps to be exclusive, to give people some reason to play on their server, instead of a different one. I know that's been the case for a few servers in TrackMania as well.

Have you released all your maps? What do you think of the map making/sharing scene in ShootMania so far?

I think that SM is muuuuuuuuuch less about creativity than TM. most people who play SM just want to play, nothing more. and map creating takes much more time as well. you have to get an idea of the map, build it, then thoroughly test it with somebody (that's the key point)... you can't just enter the editor and build some driveable s**t in few minutes/hours, like it was with TM. so, my conclusion would be that SMX will die soon. like in CS e.g., some SM maps have already become "classic", and they will be the only ones which will be played, new maps simply won't be needed.


p.s. why haven't you uploaded any maps either?


p.p.s. that's quite another reason why maniaplanet concept is bad - nadeo ties everything on the "creativity". SM main thing is obviously not the creativity.


p.p.p.s. posts editing works fine here -.-

You make some good points Space.

Space says:
p.s. why haven't you uploaded any maps either?

Simple. I haven't built any.

When I played ShootMania during the Alpha and early Beta... I messed around in the editor to see what all the blocks were and how things worked, but I never built an actual map. I don't really feel experienced enough with this type of FPS game to know exactly what I want to make. It was actually the same way for me at the start of playing TM. I played for a year and a half before even opening the editor.

Well, I hope with the ability to have many gamemodes and now the importable custom objects... maybe things will pick up and people will release more maps. I think it'd be a shame if things died out in the map making scene... before they even really got started. But to be brutally honest, it doesn't make a big difference to me personally... since I didn't buy the game. I just think it would be a shame, considering this game has an amazing editor. People should use it.

Traditionally, from what I understand, most shooter fans/players are used to playing on the same maps over and over. To even have 100 maps to choose from, not to mention 1000, is probably feeling like a bit of an overload to some. It's a lot to learn. Generally you want a group of maps that you know really well... and know every part of the map so that you can move around very fluidly. Right?

TrackMania was/is more about point A to point B. And it's always been easy to learn most maps in 1 to 3 runs. That's just a few minutes. I feel like it takes longer to really learn a ShootMania map... to explore all the areas and possibilities. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. But that could mean there's higher replay value for each map, and as a result... less need for an abundance of maps.

Then again, doesn't it sort of depend on the eventual size of the ShootMania community too? The more players that are here, the more that each person will want to play their own special maps and will develop a following on their server for the specific gamemode they specialize in.

It's a new game, a new day. I guess ultimately we shouldn't compare it to TM... which already has a well established map making scene after 9 years of track building and several iterations of the game.

You know what has always encouraged me to continue building maps? The MTC. The Monthly Track Contest was a way to get me out of my laziness and into the editor... with a specific goal... a specific theme in mind. It gave me a reason to build. The same goes for building for competitions like the Zotac Cup. It gave me a reason to build.

Perhaps ShootMania needs more mapping contests to do the same for players and encourage the growth of the mapping community here. What do you think?

I guess everone has their own way. Personally I build SM maps faster than TM maps. My last Canyon map took me 50 hours while I can built about 5 SM maps in that time (depends on how big the map is ofcourse, my siege map took me 25 hours).

And my motivation to build is being hosted online. I never participated in a building contest because I want to build my own style and not some theme.

But before SM was released I had the same concern about people wanting to learn only a few maps which then become classic but now I feel like thats not so much the case. I sense that people want new content too. Ive seen servers who constantly add new maps and even delete old maps. So there must be demand for fresh content.

And we're still in beta. I hope once it goes retail there will be a huge ad campaign by ubi. And if that doesnt work they should go free-to-play since thats the future (not my opinion but a fact). This game deserves a big and steady community!

I feel that i have to agree with the points you guys are making and I also must admit that I am one of those that has built many maps but just not uploaded them. It is just a different feel and almost like a whole new ballpark, at least for me,than making a track in TM. I am starting though, to get a feel for what is good in a map and what is not. For example, I hate those HUGE maps that are too big to find any other players and the symmetrical maps just get redundant. I think the biggest thing about making maps in SM is just making it look visually appealing, the one thing i struggled with in TM and still do now. I guess that out of all the maps I have made I just don't feel that they lived up to my expectations when I was making them, and its also much harder to stand out with your own map making style like it was so easy to do in TM. (The most easily distinguishable one for me was a DaKKoN style island track.) But that is beside the point and I may have rambled for a bit here, but what i want to say is that I still think that the styles of building are still developing. The Fullspeed transitional track did not happen overnight. My say: just keep waiting, stuff might just start happening. In the meantime, maybe I'll upload some of those maps......

eyebo says:
Perhaps ShootMania needs more mapping contests to do the same for players and encourage the growth of the mapping community here. What do you think?

shootmania needs a way to allow users to play any maps they want right here and right now. end of story.
as long as i haven't the freedom to play what i want to play, there is no point for this website to exist. manialinks and in-game maps exchange work just fine.

You are so right, and now that I think about it, I would propose a change to the rating system (Oh gawd no, you are thinking, but no, this is different).

The only way to play maps right now is online. That is the only way to REALLY see how they work in real situations. Sure, you can tinker with a amp on your own in the editor but to really know how people will respond to this this and this, it need some time online. Now in my opinion there are quite a few maps to choose from here on SMX, I mean there are ore than you could easily go through in about ten minutes.

So, here's the overview of my plan: create a more indepth rating system where maps can be rated on a variety of aspects therefore allowing users to more easily find the maps they are looking for. Let me explain, in TM there were several modes, puzzle, race, plateform, and so on. Just like in SM there are several modes, Melee, joust, elite, speedball, and so on. BUT, in TM there were subsets to each mode. Inside the mode of Race we had transitional, tech, fullspeed...

I think that there should expand the rating of SM past just 4 stars for how you feel to about 2-3 subcategories that really describe what makes a map "good" in SM such as Scenery, Mobility, Balance, Intuitiveness, etc...
To be honest, SM plays much different than TM, what works for TM may not be the best idea for SM. I don't mean to turn this thread into a rating system discussion but it may already be too late.

P.S. If this does turn into a rating system flame war, I'm sorry.

nobody cares about ratings as far as I can see. botw - 8 maps. most rated map (longest day) - 13 ratings. who will bother writing reviews?..

Not writing reviews, but stars that mean more things. For example a map could have 3 stars in scenery, 2 stars in mobility and 4 stars in whatever. The thing that matters is that people start using the rating system. Like you said, its very underutilized. Another idea that I just thought of was the importance of a PPO to SM. I hope that we get one running soon, or I hope that plans have been made to make one at all. Forzyy can you divulge on this topic?

for that it should be possible to make a server with multiple gamemodes, I'm not sure if it can be implemented.